Gagging order none disclosure agreement

Question

we have just discovered that  an nda (gagging order exists in our parish council council ) the last chairman and clerk where involved  the clerk has now destroyed large amounts of data found to have lied to councillors broken multiple standing orders ,refused to comply with FOI requests and gdpr  fortunately she is now gone but attempts are been made to cover up her antics that i will not accept actions have consequences
i will propose at the next meeting that we as a council should have no involvement in nda agreements and will expose any we discover as they are incompatible with public life and contrary to the nolan principles i will aks for a vote and resolution to this
so does anyone support NDAs in this setting or have links or info that shows how nasty they can be any help would be appreciated
i was shocked to find evidence on this in our small parish council
can anyone help

Answer 1

You are not alone!

You ARE correct to reject this situation.
I discovered an NDA in relation to a former clerk employee that was blackmailing the PC.
I have come to wonder if SLCC and or NALC are advising clerks to seek this separation condition and perhaps PCs (with weak and ill equipped Cllrs) are too scared of Ind Tribunal to challenge it.
If you PM me I can send you a copy of the (meaningless) NDA that the PC accepted and discuss in more detail the rationale for rejecting such a situation.
Was there a vote of the PC to accept this as a condition of separation?

Were you a member of the PC at that time?

Comments

I've seen the PM but, unfortunately, I don't seem able to attach a pdf document in the reply.  I think, as ever, there may be issues associated with terminology - gagging order, confidentiality clause, non disclosure condition, settlement agreement etc and the (sometimes) subtle (sometimes not so subtle) legal differences between them.  This is then further compounded by Cllrs perhaps not fully understanding the differences (or even that differences may exist between them) and also using the wrong phrase to describe the situation they actually have.

I think you'd need to try and determine EXACTLY what it is you have discovered, on what basis it was established, who provided the legal advice (and what was it) and what does the "agreement" seek to actually DO.

2 things spring immediately to mind - As Dave says below, sounds like a load of old twaddle since almost all council business is open source and since you were not on the council at the time, you cannot be bound by any agreement that was entered into prior to your appointment.  Some may argue that it was a corporate decision of the PC (if that was the case) and so you, as a Cllr, are bound by it, but that argument is without foundation if it exists prior to your appointment.

The absolute lunacy of the situation I found myself in was that the PC, before I was elected, had entered into a settlement agreement with the former clerk and refused to even acknowledge that a settlement agreement had been entered into.

So any new Cllr would have no knowledge of its existence, or the content / subject, or the supposed limitations!  It was pure comedy - Don't tell them your name Pike!

In that case. it was a "Settlement Agreement" which included elements which precluded either party discussing the content...  Of course that entirely suited the PC because it gave them top-cover to attempt to conceal their appalling HR procedures and the fact that the employee had been pulling their pants down for years.

No wonder the PC wanted to keep it quiet - oh well, what a shame, that didn't happen...

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i could not agree more with your comments solicitors have a general duty of confidentiality  however a none disclosure agreement is a very very different animal  they can not be entered in to by accident  how any one can be bound by a secret agreement they did not agree to is beyond me  i have no intention what so ever of giving up on this i was told many years ago** principles may be expensive to keep but its only when you break them that you realise they where in fact priceless and can not be repaired  ** i found emails confirming the NDAs existence  problem is partners to this will deny its very existence  more than one way to skin a cat as they say

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We had exactly the same in an open PC meeting - those that were complicit in creating the separation agreement (which included an element of confidentiality) simultaneously refusing to acknowledge its existence whilst insisting those that were not even present at the time of conception must be bound by something they have absolutely no knowledge of and that nobody will even admit exists....

It was GENUINELY comedy gold!  But they were - and largely remain to this day - convinced that they were just.

Answer 2

It always makes me smile when people talk about using NDAs in local councils. I doubt if they even know what they are or how they work. They have no place in local council administration. If a council becomes embroiled in legal proceedings, it is not uncommon for the resolution to include a confidentiality agreement signed by both parties. But any attempt to use an NDA as a gagging order is completely meaningless and unenforceable, unless of course, you can afford the fees of one of the top legal firms that churn them out to conceal the indiscretions and misdemeanours of the rich and famous.

Answer 3

The author of this thread is Cllr David Gough of Shiptonthorpe Parish Council. If you look at his previous posts, you might conclude that he is pursuing a vendetta against former councilors and the former Parish Clerk. You might even view it as bullying or character assassination.

He forced the former clerk to resign or be faced with legal action for slander. As she did not have the funds to pursue a legal defense she resigned.

David Gough has mentioned the Nolan Principles, yet he has not responded to several e mails from me asking for evidence to support his spurious claims.

As semi-retired journalist I have been covering the antics of Shiptonthorpe council since February this year and have submitted 3 FOI requests. None of the questions I asked were answered. I am now preparing to submit a formal complaint to the ICO.

You will see in his former posts that David Gough knows very little about council procedure. He wanted to replace the old chairman before the first meeting of the new council, he has criticised the clerk for deleting the e mail accounts of former councilors even though she was complying with Data protection guidelines. Even now he is claiming the clerk and former chairman have deleted huge amounts of data. Despite requests he has never provided any evidence to anyone to justify his claims.

For the avoidance of doubt no NDA or gagging order exists. He suggested in a previous post that the current chairman knows something but isn’t telling anyone.

Before responding to any further posts from Spartan I suggest you read his previous posts and form your own opinion.

You can read my coverage of Shiptonthorpe Council here: https://pocklingtonbugle.co.uk/news_taxonomy/shiptonthorpe-parish-council/

Comments

So you classify a Cllr asking uncomfortable questions as “bullying”.

Perhaps if MORE Cllrs took the time, effort and had the moral fibre to ask the searching questions - even in the face of such adversarial defamatory accusations of “bullying” - and to stick to their own moral compass, perhaps the parish council tier would be in a much better shape.
People (public) AND Cllrs very rarely start off as annoying thorn in the side of PCs, but it is easy to end up being portrayed as such when simple questions go unanswered, difficult questions are deliberately ignored or avoided and there is no sense of getting any accountability from a PC.
If PCs embraced searching and challenging questions from public and Cllrs rather than hunkering down into a passive aggressive defensive position, maybe the WHOLE sector would improve.
Asking a question does not equate to bullying - anyone that seeks to advance this type of argument is part of the problem not part of the solution.

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I applaud any councillor who asks probing questions. Having attended several council meetings and witnessed proceedings I have noted that Cllr Gough does not ask questions. He makes statements which go unchallenged. When I ask him to produce evidence to justify his claims he does not reply. This is bullying and a misuse of his position.  Please read his previous posts in order to judge for yourself whether or not he is aware of parish council procedures and whether he is pursuing a vendetta.

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In my experience deleting former Councillors email accounts is a breech of the Councils document retention scheme as surely they are Council not personal property

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Thank you
matters have now moved on and i now have emails from 2 separate individuals that confirm the existence of an NDA these 2 email are sent to a total of 3 people
i am hopeful that i will not need to use these documents
as i believe NDA have no such place in public office
so far aspocklington bugle is concerned  i understand his FOI requests concerned charities however as they are not public bodies except in very rare cases they are not subject to FOI request
'Public authorities' are defined in FOIA and include government departments, local authorities and other government-funded bodies such as the NHS, police, armed forces and The Big Lottery Fund. Charities are not 'public authorities' and so are not directly subject to FOIA's requirements simple research would confirm this
in addition by the very nature of NDA he would not know of there existence indeed others in the same organisation would not know and may well be bound by its terms to deny all knowledge of its existence  hence the reason they should not be used

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they are indeed council property and would be subject to the data retention policy .one can imagine circumstances where a response to a legal problem is required telling the judge you deletedd all records the day a councillor left is unlikely to assist the case

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If that is the case David Gough why did the Information Commissioner recently dismiss your complaint? Please can you confirm if you have a copy of, or have had sight of, this NDA  agreement you claim exists.