THE VALUE OF NALC

Question

I am writing this thread so as to take opinion about an issue I have.  I know what I want to do but because the issue is so fundamental, I would like some independent opinion. This issue is all about what value is NALC to the individual Council/Councillor in carrying out their public duty.   I am in a dilemma because during my working life everything revolved around understanding who my customer was for anything that I did.  Paramount  was understanding their needs and aspiring to meet those needs.   Then several years ago I discovered Parish Councils and soon realised that customer considerations did not really enter the mindset of most Councillors.  However, some months ago I applied to be a Councillor and got stuck in.  The reaction was unbelievably hostile especially from Councillors. Anyhow we now come to the issue of NALC .  Whilst I am unsure of precisely what they offer PCs as a whole package (we pay about £800pa)  I did know that they issue Legal Topic Notes which were useful to any Councillor carrying out research and I therefore asked our new Locum Clerk for password access to the local branch’s website (members area) .  This was refused by the clerk saying that she had sole discretion. I rang the local  branch and they said “yep that’s right”.    They further commented “look we can’t deal with individual Councillors (understand that)  and all business is transacted through the clerk (as the PCs representative)  and as far as we are concerned she is our only point of contact. If you have any problems deal with her but in the meantime, we won’t deal with anyone else”. I then wrote to NALC HQ twice but they did not reply .   A further recent request to the clerk got the response “sorry I haven’t changed my mind the matter is closed”.  Now I believe she is acting beyond her role in “setting policy” and I am quite happy to write to the staffing committee although the Councillors on that seem to be clinging to her every word (they cant recruit a full time clerk) .  The alternative is to ask the question of Councillors” OK if that is  NALCs attitude why would any Council want to belong to such an organisation if they show such a blatant disregard for their customers (the Council’s) needs .

I know that whatever I do it will stir up a hornet’s nest but if anything, I am trying to understand what added value do NALC truly  bring to any Council operations? On balance do most commentators believe membership is necessary or worthwhile ?

Answer 1

An initial observation. Your Council doesn't affiliate to the NALC. Your affiliation is to your local association, which is an independent organisation.

For what it's worth, I don't allow any of my Councillors to have access to the Members' Area of my local association's website or the NALC, as I consider it part of my role to provide appropriate advice. The value of the NALC and its local associations manifests itself through the provision of model standing orders, financial regulations, policies and procedures that are constantly under review as the law changes. The LTN's and other guidance notes are invaluable in clarifying a myriad of issues and where would we have been during the pandemic without this support mechanism?

Comments

With respect, I do not think your comments answer my point.

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Let me put it another way. I am providing the service my councils want me to provide. They don't want to become bogged down in legislation, guidance and legal opinion. We're a team and everybody has clearly defined roles. Mine includes the guidance function. We work very closely together and there are no factions or infighting. Differences of opinion are resolved by calm mature negotiation. All information is shared openly for the common good. Every email I receive from our local association and the NALC is auto-forwarded to every councillor, so that they are aware of the bigger picture, events, training opportunities etc

Imagine a county council in which all 60-plus members seek their own guidance on matters under consideration. Where would that leave the officers? Members rely on officers to tell them what is or isn't legal/feasible/achievable. That's how local government works.

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All very interesting but your further comments skate around my central concern in your original post.  Lets leave it there.

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Dave    I think you are right in that, if councillors do not want access to NALC Guidance, then they do not need the password.   If they do - then they should get it (or find a friendly clerk and or surf the web).  Re guidance, I do not like the Parish Council Bow Tie Organisation and prefer the Charitable world now.  In that world all trustees use their knowledge and expertise to help the cause, and there is a shed load of free guidance available to all.  We do not reply on one person to act as god, and nor should we.    While a councillor recently, the guidance from the clerk was of varying quality being from very good to non existent, with bordering on illegal in the middle.  All advice provided by the clerk needs to be challenged and verified, including NALC and SLCC guidance IMHO.

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I completely agree with your comments especially about advice as my experience mirrors yours and any attempt to seek to verify what we are being told results in personal attacks
Councillors should if they are minded to be allowed to see all documentation relating to an issue not just a précis
In my experience any attempt to discuss finances results in claims that it’s being suggested that there’s fraud
All too often I’m reminded of  my favourite phase “ I know what the answer is but what was the question ? “

Answer 2

The town or Parish council pays for membership of their local NALC association and the council must have full access to all of its services. If the clerk managed the logon credentials he or she must provide any information from NALC that members request, and do it promptly. I can't see any reason why NALC can't provide multiple local council accounts. They should be challenged about it given the amount they charge.

Answer 3

openspaces posed the question "What added value do NALC truly  bring to any Council operations?"  In reality NALC will ask the Local Sub County associations to provide act sometimes as a conduit for NALC services and publications so these must also be considered as part of the whole picture.
Here are some questions to consider whose answers that might help councils come to a view.

What does the annual membership fee bring that adds value to the Council?  Does it include advice that is free (such as Legal Topic Notes) that would cost more to acquire as a non member?  (Could the Principal Authority Legal Department offer it free?)

If the council is a member of NALC and their clerk is a member of the SLCC, can the clerk get the same advice from SLCC?  If so, what else can the the Council get from NALC?

What additional costs are incurred over and above NALC memberships e.g. for NALC training courses? Can other providers offer them more cheaply (e.g. SLCC, Principal Authority etc)

Are NALC annual gatherings just a nice day out jamboree with nice food and chat or do they provide networking opportunities that add value to the council.?

What portion of your membership fee is contributing to these people and how much do they get in salaries and allowances?  https://www.nalc.gov.uk/about/team

NALC say they "Provide a national voice for local (parish and town) councils across England" adding ". We campaign on their behalf, raise awareness of their work and provide them with a range of services to support their needs."  Who do NALC give their voice to, campaign to and raise awareness to? It certainly isn't to members of the public.

NALC charge Councils to be evaluated for their Local Award scheme.  Councils have to pay NALC over and above their membership to be assessed.   Apart from displaying a logo on Council docs and webpages, what benefits do their awards really bring?  Do they get cheaper insurance for example if they have any NALC awars certification.  Are such awards valued or even recognised by members of the public?

Comments

It is to provide administrative services and provide advice and support to cllrs, not to try and control access to guidance from an external body. The Clerk is not empowered to exercise discretion, which is a form of unilateral decision making. It seems to be that NALC have no good reason for restricting access to member rights to just one specified council designated person other than laziness.

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"...not empowered to exercise discretion..." Really? Where does it say that?

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In the original post where Openspaces said of their clerk " This was refused by the clerk saying that she had sole discretion" in regard to providing the council account credentials for accessing the NALC legal topic notes. Councillors are the decision making executive, unless the SO's Procedures or Policy provide appropriate delegations. Being discrete could be seen in different contexts though.

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The position is that it now seems that I have managed to get this item on the next agenda of my local affiliated association and with apparent support after discussing the possibility of leaving .  However locally my motion tabled under para 9 to discuss matters at Full Council has been rejected.  The clerk in her reply has relented and said that she will make a list available and supply LTNs on request but not allow unfettered access as she has sole discretion.  She states the local association have agreed with her whilst NALC does not have a view.    My chairman meanwhile suggests that she is acting within her powers and my refusal to go away after the clerk has told me the  matter is closed could constitute harassment.   My response has been "what powers are these then " .  I have also tabled another motion to get greater clarification on para 9 of the SOs. Greater clarification is supposed to be in "local Councils explained" pages 157-164 but cant find a copy.
Things getting a bit hairy now.

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Openspaces      Unfortunately council life is often opinion based assertions unsubstantiated by fact.  I sense however, that you may be the only one chasing this issue in council?   Without other councillor support you will struggle.  You will have to get a cohort who support the idea and call a meeting to discuss it, if the chair does not want to.