Should the clerk pay themselves or should it be signed off?

Question

Are clerks paid by a central body or through the Parish books?  Our clerk seemingly pays themself, tracks their own hours, accumulates extra hours  - all without the councillors having sight of this or signing off the salary payment.  Commons sense tells me anyone in a position responsible for payments, including their own salary, should have a second sign-off for anything relating to their own pay.   Is it different for clerks?  Or are they paid by a central body?

Answer 1

All payments should be approved by PC.

Answer 2

Clerks are paid out of the Council precept and effectively pay themselves but their monthly salary payment should be approved by a Council resolution.

Comments

Thank you for this.  Just getting my ducks in a row before “nudging” this i the correct direction

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What about the Clerk's time sheets, overtime payments and expenses? Should all of these be seen by councillors in good time before meetings and approved separately to the salary at meetings? Our Clerk does not add their timesheets to the supporting documents at each meeting, and when questioned says they are not the business of the council. The Clerk is often supported by the Chairman who claims he has cast an eye over them and they're OK, so a complete lack of transparency. It seems important for the council as a whole to see and approve the timesheets if only to make sure the Clerk isn't having to work too many hours on certain council business.

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This sounds rather familiar to the situation I previously encountered.
A clerk that refused to disclose any detail or answer any questions about additional pay and expenses.
20 years he’d been clerk and no one could (apparently) get beyond his superior attitude and condescending manner.
6 months after I joined the PC he ‘resigned’ and narrowly avoided a fraud investigation.
Ask your questions, don’t be put off by lofty or indignant responses. Don’t stop asking until you get the answers you are satisfied with.
Don’t let the tail wag the dog!

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When reading responses connected to questions about  pclerks I’m learning that many are bullies.  How has this happened?  Don’t get me wrong, the reason I’m asking questions is because I find similar behaviours but I’m wondering what it is about this position where an employee becomes such a a bully and it’s tolerated

Answer 3

The clerks payments should come under the employment committee scrutiny to ensure that the contracts of employment are adhered to and the clerk is not under/over paid. The amounts to be paid should be calculated by a qualified "book keeper" who ensures that the correct amounts are arrived at and deductions for PAYEE and NI are correct. These amounts should be presented ( on monthly basis) at the PC meeting for approval along with other out of pocket expenses of the clerk and council payments of invoices for purchases etc.

These amounts can then be cross referenced with the presented accounts produced by the RFO'

It is the committees job to ensure that the hours worked and duties performed meet the clerks contract. If not it is for them to negotiate changes with the clerk not for the clerk to unilaterally make changes.

Comments

Apologies I'm jumping in here but interested to know how a small Council with no Committees best do this? Only our Chairman and VC know our Clerks T&Cs.

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Why? All councillors are responsible for what goes on in council and its decisions and finances. Last time I looked the clerk was paid from the precept which is public money. Ask the chair for the clerks T&C. No reason why ( regardless of size) why you should not have an employment group or committee who are responsible for the employment of the clerk. Their terms of reference should not over ride the right of any councillor to know what those T&C are. The Chair's only duty is to chair council meetings. Neither the clerk or the chair make decisions the councillors( however few) make the decisions.

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Thank you Mentorman. As with many contributors on this forum my Council has been a private members club/fiefdom for certain individuals. I will raise later in the year when the budget will be reviewed. Thanks again

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Thank you.  This is all very helpful.

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Whilst accurate, the comment “... The clerks payments should come under the employment committee scrutiny...” could / should also be caveated with:

The employment committee should be scrutinised by the PC.
A committee can never have greater authority than the whole - it only has that level of autonomy which is specifically delegated to it (by the whole) and would not be empowered to act in greater authority than the whole.

Answer 4

Our council uses a payroll company who do all the calculations and we then pay a lump sum to them once a month to cover all payroll, pensions, taxes etc.  This is seen by all councillors on a monthly basis in the payments for approval agenda item.  I am not sure why the Clerk is even submitting timesheets for signoff if they are contracted for a set number of hours a week as per their employment contract - seems to be pointless if they work the same hours week on week.

Comments

Do you have e a large council?  Ours is quite small.

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Its a relative answer but we have 15 councillors and 5 part time members of staff.  I insisted on a payroll company when I joined when we had 3 part time members of staff including me.  Payroll and legal obligations in this area is a minefield that I was not prepared to go into.  we only pay £25+VAT a month for all the work and I think it is money well spent and a good security blanket.

Answer 5

Using payroll companies is a minimal cost but is certainly a legal safeguard from the Councillors side.

The role is changing fundamentally with the introduction of IT, new laws and regulations.

The clerk is an employee- if they are asking for more hours consider accounting packages or splitting up the role.

Ask them to do a time and motion study to review the role. Do you undertake job appraisal?

Comments

We’re a new council. The previous chairman elected not to stand and is not forthcoming with information. I don’t think performance appraisals have been conducted at all and this needs to be rectified immediately. I’m having a difficult time just getting sight of the employment contract.  It appears the clerk holds their own and the PC’s copy which I will most definitely address. Lots of power tactics going on here and it appears we need to get it re-balanced.