Is This The Incorrect Procedure For Election Of Chair?

Question

At the last election of chair, both Candidates were asked to leave the room whilst the rest of the council voted for the candidate of their choice. This does not seem to fit in with the standing orders as neither candidates can vote for themselves along with the rest of the Council with a show of hands. Can anyone enlighten me as to whether the Council are right or wrong in their procedure?

Answer 1

Aside from being gobsmacked at there being two candidates for chair (we struggle to get someone to stop forward!), I wouldn't normally expect the candidates to leave the room for the vote.  Voting is generally through a show of hands but if absolutely pushed, you could write into your standing orders that there can be a ballot (paper vote) in the event of a multitude of candidates and/or a request for a paper vote.  You should be following your standing orders and not making it up as you go along.

Comments

This is the some total of the Election Of Chair from my standing orders. As you can see, there is no procedure on the correct way to vote for and appoint a new chair. The show of hands with candidates present isn't even mentioned. Can you advise any further?

Answer 2

Every member has a right to vote on any motion, unless they are required to withdraw due to an interest.  Being a candidate for the position of chair or vice-chair of the council, of a committee, or memberships of a committee are not interests and so a member may participate in the vote, and may vote for themselves.  Additionally, they may propose or second themselves as a candidate.  Many councils adopt secret ballots in standing order for the election of chair and vice-chair, however any member may request a recorded vote, which would take precedence over a secret ballot.

Comments

Many thanks lawcruncher. My I respectfully ask for further advice? Below is an excerpt of our standing orders regarding the election of Chair.
I find these a bit vague and confusing.
I also have further questions below the excerpt.

"hIn an election year, if the current Chairman of the Council has not been re-elected as a member of the council, he/she/they shall preside at the meeting until a successor Chair of the Council has been elected. The current Chair of the Council shall not have an original vote in respect of the election of the new Chair of the Council but must give a casting vote in the case of an equality of votes.

iIn an election year, if the current Chair of the Council has been re-elected as a member of the council, he/she/they shall preside at the meeting until a new Chair of the Council has been elected. He/she/they may exercise an original vote in respect of the election of the new Chair of the Council and must give a casting vote in the case of an equality of votes"

This is all there is. There does not seem to be a clear and defined process to the Election of Chair.                                                My Questions are as follows.
                              
Can the PC continue with further secret ballots even though the practice is not in the standing orders?
Will they have to change the standing orders to accommodate this practice?
Can I have an original vote for myself as candidate and also a casting vote in the event of a tie?
(according to the above, I don't get a casting vote, but I have heard otherwise)
Can I (as a candidate and current Chair) insist on on an open election and show of hands as apposed to a secret ballot with candidates not present?
Hope you can help.

Kind Regards and Thanks.

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Can the PC continue with further secret ballots?  If there isn't any provision in standing orders for a secret ballot, then no. Double check your standing orders though - in model standing orders this process is covered in 8.  In any event, any councillor may request a recorded vote.  If you do not want there to be a secret ballot, request a recorded vote.

Will they have to change standing orders?  If standing orders do not allow for a secret ballot then yes, they would need to be changed to permit a secret ballot.  (There is a rare exception to this which would be if standing orders allowed a motion without notice to hold a secret ballot).  Again, any attempt to hold a secret ballot can be defeated simply by any councillor requesting a recorded vote.


Can I have an original vote and a casting vote in the event of a tie?  If you are in the chair and a member of the council then yes, you have an original vote and a casting vote - just as you would for any other motion.  The chair of a meeting always has a casting vote.  However, if the chair of a meeting is no longer a member of the council (eg the outgoing chair after an election) they do not have an original vote.

Out of curiosity, it is an interesting time of year to be raising this question if you are the existing chair.  I'm wondering (if you don't mind my asking) why this has come up now?

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The subject came up in conversation recently with a fellow Councillor whilst we were doing a Speed-watch Session. It just stuck in my mind and I thought that I would finally get advice and put it to bed for good. At least then when the Elections time comes I'll be prepared well in advance. Your answers have been very helpful and your advice valued.
        I put another question up regarding the Chairs responsibility with regard to the signing of documents passed onto me by the Clerk. I have had a couple of answers on that, but if you care to add your advice as well, that would also be appreciated.                                                                                         Once again, my thanks.

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"Asking" people to leave the room is an unwise and unenforceable practice.  As LC says previously, only when an interested has been declared should a Cllr leave the room and even then, it is entirely of their own volition and the action cannot be imposed upon them.

(All of) the press and public may be excluded from a meeting (by a majority resolution of the council) but a Cllr may not be excluded.

There is an inalienable right of a Cllr candidate to propose and vote for them self should they so wish so asking them to leave the room is patently absurd.

It is possible to 'explain' logic to some people, but it is not always possible to 'understand' it for them - they have to get there on their own.
If explaining it doesn't work a more direct approach is sometimes needed - if 'asked' to leave the room simply say "no thank you - I wish to exercise my own right to vote"

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Thanks for this RoudAgain Coxon. I now feel comfortable with going forward. Just to let you know. The secret ballot that they like to use for the election of chair IS NOT in my standing orders. In which case this helps my situation for next year. Thanks again.

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Do you have access to NALC LTN 2?   Para 8 & 9 provide unambiguous confirmation that 'asking a prospective chair to leave the room is inappropriate.
If not, type "NALC LTN2" into your search engine and the nice people at Northamptonshire county association have an open source link at their website.

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Thanks for this RoundAgainCoxn. I'm onto it straight away.