Can a council refuse to supply the contact details of the internal auditor?

Question

Following the publication of the annual governance and accountability return, significant "errors" were found in their production. This had gone back several years. The external auditor recognized the "errors". The "errors" will be called this for now, pending further investigation. The council have refused parishioners the right to contact the internal auditor, as they say it is would be a GDPR breach. The internal auditors name is on the document. Are the council allowed to do this?

Answer 1

The appointment of the internal auditor should be an annual event, usually at the annual meeting, so it should appear in the minutes. As you have said, the IA's name appears on the report. A payment to the IA must be approved by the council and placed on the public record, either at the time or through the publication of individual payments at year-end, or both. It is childish to refuse to publish this information, as an FOI request would reveal it. If you can't track it down, check neighbouring local councils, as auditors often work for more than one council.

Comments

Thanks Dave the Clerk
The council will not give the information. Many FOI requests have been made and all have been ignored. This will now be raised with the unitary authority. The councillors and their clerk are not telling the truth. The external auditor has found for me in 3 objections I have made to the accounts which are quite serious. The councillors as you can expect were a little upset and they showed it in the October 2022 meeting after cancelling 2 meetings before. This has been taken forward with the authorities. In the meantime please look at Puxton Parish Council minutes just for 2022. They are abusive to myself. I think childish does not do it justice. They are unprofessional and quite threatening. Your comments will be tweeted out on @puxtonparishner. Many thanks

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If they have ignored an FOI request, you should notify the Information Commissioner. An FOI request doesn't need to mention FOI, as long as the information requested falls within the scope of the legislation, which in this case, it does.

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Thanks Dave the Clerk
Yes a few FOI requests have gone in and all have been ignored. This is pointed out to North Somerset Council and they just ignore it as well. The clerk has been sending my private email yo the councillors who then send me an email from their private email address, not once but several times. The clerk was told to explain this and ask for emails to not be sent from those email addresses, but the emails keep coming from individuals. An ICO complaint is being compiled together with a complaint on NSC who have failed to the 1 month notice to explain themselves as well. The clerk has already been found to have data breached before. Therefore this will be highlighted to the commissioner. Please follow items like this as they are released on twitter @puxtonparishner

Answer 2

I’ve just done something very similar (requested IA report from a neighbouring PC) They hadn’t published it.

Clerk got all sniffy and said he’d ‘ask’ the chair of they’d agree to release it if I gave a reason for wanting to see it. 

I left it a while then reminded them that they were already ½ way through the 20 days they have to provide it.

They published it to their website rather than send it to me personally but that made me larf anyway 

I wanted to see that report (and several other PC IA reports conducted by the same IA) and I was able to do so - even though they didn’t want to.

But that is different to me being able to ask or request any information from the IA.

So whilst you may reasonably be able to obtain the details of the person that conducted the IA - it does not mean that when you get the IA details that they have to engage with you.

Comments

Thanks RoundAgainCoxn
Please see my comments above. To add to it the clerk of Puxton Parish Council is not qualified as a clerk. He is also clerk to another council Walton in Gordano. At that council, the ward councillor was the ex Leader of North Somerset Council for 12 years. This gentlemen would have had a working relationship with the Governance & Monitoring Services of the Elections Services. They have declared me vexatious. I therefore have some legitimate concerns. The whistleblowing service just referred me back to Election Services. WHAT!!!! This is pure corruption. What do I do?

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I've sent you a PM with my email address, get in touch offline for some more specific detail but in the meantime, I would VERY strongly recommend that you (everyone) joins the Internal Audit Forum https://internalauditforum.org.uk It is £10/pa for affiliate membership (parish councillors.)  I proposed and gained approval from PC for my membership but at £10 I'd have done it myself it they had played up.  I am SO enthusiastic to encourage Cllrs to access this forum!  Like the NALC and county ALC logins and passwords - the council pays for them - the council should access them.  Put it in your Cllr CPD - it would be impossible for a credible argument against going at £10 for a year.  I'll do a fresh answer and post as an attachment an extract from page 4 of the Christmas newsletter...

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Thanks RoundAgainCoxn
It is great service you are giving and inviting me into the forum. I will contact you privately and another contributor who wants to do the same. All I will say is that you will be truly shocked at what this council have been doing in full sight of the unitary authority. North Somerset Council do nothing. They even when it is pointed out to them that the parish council are lying with the evidence to prove it just come back and say they have made their decision and if you do not agree you must go to judicial review, which I assume will cost me money?
I still cannot believe that this has been going on 4 & 1/2 years. The clerk just lies and lies and lies and his councillors back him. However recently he and the councillors overstepped the mark and hopefully ths will be the tipping point, which it should not be. I remember another contributor say Embarrass, Embarrass, Embarrass. This forum does that. I will be in touch. Look at @puxtonparishner for updates with a festive theme!!

Answer 3

And, latest guidance (received by email today) from internal audit forum states that IA report should be published. (Haven’t digested it in detail yet)

Comments

Hi RoundAgainCoxn
That is great let me know when you have digested it.

Answer 4

I couldn't drop a screen shot in so it's a cut & paste direct from the newsletter - the highlight is IAFs in the original text not my own:

Practitioners Guide 2022

I will be writing to the Secretariat of JPAG to ask if an item can be taken to the JPAG Technical Working Group for submission on the JPAG agenda that Annual Internal Audit Reports should be displayed on Council's websites. The current publication requirements set out on the front page of the AGAR 2021/2022 states:

Under the Accounts and Audit Regulations 2015, authorities must publish the following information on the authority website/webpage

Before 1 July 2022 authorities must publish:

• Notice of the period for the exercise of public rights and a declaration that the accounting statements are as yet unaudited;
• Section 1 - Annual Governance Statement 2021/22, approved and signed, page 4
• Section 2 - Accounting Statements 2021/22, approved and signed, page 5 Not later than 30 September 2022 authorities must publish:

• Notice of conclusion of audit • Section 3 - External Auditor Report and Certificate
• Sections 1 and 2 of AGAR including any amendments as a result of the limited assurance review

It is recommended as best practice, to avoid any potential confusion by local electors and interested parties, that you also publish the Annual Internal Audit Report

Currently it is only a best practice requirement that the Annual Internal Audit Report be displayed on the website, but to provide future transparency I will be asking this is made a mandatory requirement.

If approved, this would then feature as an update for a future version of the Practitioners Guide.

Internal Audit Forum Website

One of the key features of the Internal Audit Forum website development was to create a chat room space for those with full Internal Audit Forum membership to share ideas and to keep in touch with on internal audit issues.

Although there has been some initial use of the feature, I would like to encourage those of you with full membership and have access to the members area of the website to use this facility.

Comments

That is great. I am a finance manager so would really enjoy this. On AGAR 2021-22, I requested to inspect the accounts. The council ignored my request. I followed up, it was ignored. I went to the external auditor who wrote to the council. They still said no to an inspection. I objected and the external auditor found for me on 3 counts on the audit. I will fill you in on the detail, but it surrounds the sum of £40,000. The council even tried to get the police involved as they said it was harassment asking to see the accounts. Can you believe it. The police got involved in other matters regarding a petition and therefore this will be followed up with the Chief Constable. Just to note that one of the councillors who is related to another councillor is an ex police officer and following her retirement became a PCSO in our area, Another matter for the Chief Constable.

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Sounds like you could be in the 12th episode of the 6th series of the Simpsons….