Who is allowed to attend group meetings of a council

Question

As well as committees, we have set up various groups (there are no-committees as such) which meet regularly. One of these is a Management Group that includes e.g. responsibilities for recruitment. Unfortunately it can be very secretive, with agendas and minutes only available if you ask - sometimes they don't appear to exist at all - and even then a reluctance to issue these to councillors outside this group or to  answer questions relating to these meetings in full council meetings. Do councillor have an automatic right to attend, although not participate, in these meetings (excluding obvious events such as appraisals) and do members of the public have an automatic right to attend group meetings also? Our standing orders follow the model NALC ones.

Answer 1

Any meeting of the Council should be open to attendance by members of the public, an the agenda should be published in a timeframe in accordance with legislation. The only exceptions are working parties and meeting s those where press and public are excluded by resolution of the council. Gatherings of councillors known as working parties are not minuted or subject to a Simmons with agenda and are supposed to be focused on a specific purpose. They are not convened in a meeting format. However some unscrupulous Councils use them as a front for covert actual meetings to prevent the public from having access

Comments

I thought 4 d vii referred specifically to sub committees . My understanding with committees is that you have a right to attend but are treated as  members of the public ie cant speak or vote

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What does 4 d Vii refer to please?  I agree with your comment about committees but I think with sub committees Cllrs can also attend but are treated as  members of the public.

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Sorry I think is viii
d The council may appoint standing committees or other committees as may be necessary, and:
viii. shall determine if the public and press are permitted to attend the meetings of a sub-committee and also the advance public notice requirements, if any, required for the meetings of a sub-committee

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Thanks, that does not give them the right to exclude their own councillors who are "the council".

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I haven't yet asked to attend the group as an 'observer', as I think it'll annoy them, and I wanted to check here first on my rights as a Cllr. I'm so exasperated with the secrecy I think it should now come to a head. Presumably I can insist on sight of agenda and  minutes though as a first step. They are available without fail for all other group meetings.

Answer 2

It sounds as if you're describing a working party which is an informal group usually formed for a specific purpose and sometimes called a task and finish group.  Working groups cannot have delegated powers as such but are sometimes used to undertake the background research into a proposal for example and can then make recommendations to council or a committee.  Working groups have the advantage of not requiring formal agendas or minutes and can include non councillors but should have terms of reference agreed by the committee or council where the setting up of the working group was agreed.  Membership of the group is usually also set out in the terms of reference but not always.  If membership is agreed by council/committee then other councillors have no automatic right to attend and neither do the public but the terms of reference might indicate otherwise.

Comments

No, not working parties, which would be very temporary. I've added more above.