Unlawful Sub-Committee

Question

Is there a mechanism, other than a special motion, that can reverse an unlawful [possibly illegal] decision?

I ask soley as I can't see how a special motion can take place now due to Covid 19 unless anyone know how a special motion can be performed at this time.

Equally, can I propose during the minutes section of a meeting that the unlawful [possibly illegal] sub committee cannot meet? [It was forged outside of delegated powers]

Answer 1

I think you need to provide a few more details.  Implementation of most council decisions will start with the Clerk and these should be via recorded resolutions.  Was the decision ratified by full council on the basis of a recommendation of what you regard as this unlawfully assembled group of councillors?, Did such a group identify themselves as a working party or a named committee?  And was any previous resolution given to call for the assembled group of people to meet?

Comments

Of course. It's recorded and resolved and voted on.

The sub committe was forged in Full Council.

The terms of refference for Full Council don't cite the committee it would need to branch from, let alone a sub-committe which can't be created in Full Council.

They have already made decisions.
I want to avoid the word unlawful in a meeting when I flag this but essentially decision making has been given when the power
to give it does not exsist and breached our own governance

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I'm absolutely confident I'm right I have to say. It's a very important function of the council although they all are of course

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So is this sub committee made up of cllrs who also serve on another higher level committee? Is its terms of reference defined, and how many members are needed for it to be quorate?  Does the sub committee refer its recommendations to the higher committee, or direct to full council?

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No it's s sub committe created in Full Town Council with no committe in-between
There's no reporting mechanism in the terms of refference regarding where they report to but we have had updates to Full Council via members, though I didn't attend those meetings but it has been minuted as such.
Yes I would say they Terms of Refference  have been defined as such as was voted on, though I voted against but The Council has adopted them.
It's seem procedurally wrong. This is our staffing committee hence it's problematic
4 members on the committe with 2 stand in members. I can't recall number for quorate (apologises) and we don't receive any written minutes etc

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Hi there,
Just to add (apologies if I have misunderstood anywhere). A staffing committee should not provide any minutes of a meeting to anyone outside of the staffing committee. This is to ensure that there is confidentiality for the staff. Minutes that are produced for this committe should be kept locked and secure to members of that committee only.
The full council in it's Standing Orders should clearly state how a committee and sub-committee is formed and who can sit on it with voting rights and what powers it gives to the committee/sub-committee. The full council can revoke this at any time on a successful vote of a motion.

If the committees have been set up against the procedures of your Standing Orders (regardless of if it is voted on or not) then this is illegal. The committee would not legally exist and would have to be dissolved. The committee would then need to be set up properly within the rules of Standing Orders OR two councillors will need to call the Standing Orders back in at a full council meeting. A motion to change them (in whatever way) can then be voted on and a committee formed accordingly.
Any breaches can be reported to the borough/district council as well as the auditor.
Hope this helps.

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Although the principle of confidentiality is important, neither the council nor its committees can keep minutes secret. There is a statutory right for the public to inspect minutes. Nor is it possible to exclude a record of decisions, since signed minutes are the definitive record of what decisions have been made. What is necessary is to record what decisions have been made, omitting details that would breach confidentiality, possibly referring to documents that are not themselves part of the minutes.

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Thank you for clarifying regarding the minutes aspect.
The point made by Counterpoint is intresting as if a decison is made then there would be no evidence? It's still an area of confusion for me presently. I can see both sides here.
Luckily it has been agreed it needs  to go so I am pleased about this so we can now set this up correctly which is a huge relief.
Perhaps I'll ask the clerk about minutes before it comes to Council.

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I'm afraid the point made by Counterpoint is not quite correct. Minutes for full council meetings and all committees except staffing should be made public. If you take a look at any other tier of governments transparency you'll notice everything minuted except staffing.
If you google Open and Accountable Local Government and read the document - final paragraph of page 9 will highlight how the same procedure can apply.
As stated minutes can and should be made for the staffing panel but should not be open for all under this principle.

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I don't know that you can get away with that so easily. You need statutory support for the claim that staffing committee minutes are not available to the public. This would be a very poor principle, as many of the matters to be considered by a staffing committee do not relate to individuals and should not be secret. For example, the maintenance of sound documents to govern procedures. Looking around the web, you will find minutes for many staffing committees of parish councils. You would also need to consider the Local Government (Access to Information) Act 1985 which includes a stipulation: "Where, in consequence of the exclusion of parts of the minutes which disclose exempt information, the document open to inspection under subsection (1)(a) above does not provide members of the public with a reasonably fair and coherent record of the whole or part of the proceedings, the proper officer shall make a written summary of the proceedings or the part, as the case may be, which provides such a record without disclosing the exempt information." That is pretty much how I described the requirement for staffing committee minutes.

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I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm simply saying it doesn't have to be. Best practice is to be as transparent as possible. But there are justifiable times when thinks must be kept private and unpublished, which is different to unrecorded.

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I understand. Thank you both. I can only pressume minutes may be shared with Council if not personalised or the specific more detailed versions via a court order or an employment dispute? Possibly via a Subject Access Request?
I do appreciate all the feedback here. My Council has never had a proper committee since I've been on it so it's all "new" - other than a Planning Committee

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By default, all minutes are to be made available including staffing committee minutes. Omission of personal details and other items from staffing committee minutes and public attendance is permitted under schedule 12 of the Loc gov act 1972 and other acts. However I believe the minutes should be published and at least convey the scope of what took place in accordance with the agenda items on the summons. So for example it could  2.  Allegation of bullying: Resolved that no  action was required.